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	<title>Comments on: Citizen journalism: what if no-one comes?</title>
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	<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/</link>
	<description>Conversations for collaboration</description>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/?p=27#comment-176</guid>
		<description>Who is TimJim?

Would like to speak to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is TimJim?</p>
<p>Would like to speak to you.</p>
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		<title>By: David Wilcox</title>
		<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/#comment-140</link>
		<dc:creator>David Wilcox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/?p=27#comment-140</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jessica - interesting analysis. Any stats to back it up:-)? Whinge-power is certainly making an impact in retail as customers organise ... but otherwise, as you say, it depends if the power-holders listen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jessica &#8211; interesting analysis. Any stats to back it up:-)? Whinge-power is certainly making an impact in retail as customers organise &#8230; but otherwise, as you say, it depends if the power-holders listen.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica Symons</title>
		<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica Symons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/?p=27#comment-139</guid>
		<description>Web 2.0 is an innovation perpetuated and made popular through middle class, computer literate business to business interaction (where &#039;businesses&#039; are often self employed consultants).  

There needs to be a clear distinction between work use and social use - it seems to me that most internet use is for entertainment only, followed by research/information look up.  Key active interaction on the web is the opportunity to complain...  

My prediction is that &#039;whinge platforms&#039; where complaints are taken seriously and followed up are key drivers for interactivity on the web.  That is the &#039;killer need&#039; that drives engagement..  If you look at a lot of the existing comments and interaction, they are essentially whinges.  The problem is that they are empty, no-one hears the complaints or reacts to them (except for the fantastic Faxyourmp.com which I think transformed politics)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Web 2.0 is an innovation perpetuated and made popular through middle class, computer literate business to business interaction (where &#8216;businesses&#8217; are often self employed consultants).  </p>
<p>There needs to be a clear distinction between work use and social use &#8211; it seems to me that most internet use is for entertainment only, followed by research/information look up.  Key active interaction on the web is the opportunity to complain&#8230;  </p>
<p>My prediction is that &#8216;whinge platforms&#8217; where complaints are taken seriously and followed up are key drivers for interactivity on the web.  That is the &#8216;killer need&#8217; that drives engagement..  If you look at a lot of the existing comments and interaction, they are essentially whinges.  The problem is that they are empty, no-one hears the complaints or reacts to them (except for the fantastic Faxyourmp.com which I think transformed politics)</p>
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		<title>By: Chief K.Masimba Biriwasha</title>
		<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Chief K.Masimba Biriwasha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/?p=27#comment-122</guid>
		<description>This is a highly relevant post, and helped me to think through how I will get people involved in a forum that I intend to build.

Many thanks

Chief K.Masimba</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a highly relevant post, and helped me to think through how I will get people involved in a forum that I intend to build.</p>
<p>Many thanks</p>
<p>Chief K.Masimba</p>
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		<title>By: TimJim</title>
		<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>TimJim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 07:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/?p=27#comment-120</guid>
		<description>David, thanks for a very nice summary. I&#039;m going to cite this in a report I&#039;m currently doing on the use of social media in building intercultural dialogue. The relevance being that a) you can build a participative platform and no one might come and b) if they do come, they will almost certainly not discuss the issues you want in the way you want (and the reality might the far uglier).

Cased- good point about users needing complete freedom to set their own topics. It sounds as if Robin&#039;s experience points in exactly the same direction and our experience with yoosk has also confirmed this.

Here’s another elephant: blogging is hard, time consuming, often brings no personal reward and in the experience of many turns out to be a futile venture that they give up within a few months. The same applies to writing comments on other people’s blogs or composing articles for submission to citizen journalism platforms. 

As a genre, I suspect it’s likely that blogging will soon be seen as something that is done by people who work in media and on the fringes of media, along with academics, entrepreneurs and others who want to showcase their expertise and intellects.

And as long as people working in participative media and e-democracy expect high levels of participation from the public that involves blogging or carefully composed ‘posts’, either by text or video, then I think we’ll be disappointed.

To write this comment, I sat down in front of a word document and spent about half an hour drafting, redrafting and putting the finishing touches to what I hope is a reasonably intelligent contribution that will add something to the debate. I do this because I know I’ll be judged by what I write and I care what people, even strangers, think of me. I assume most people are the same.

How many people have the time and motivation to do that? I have the time because I am self-employed and I have the motivation because I want to network with a group of people who I think will add value to my intellectual and business life.

But most people are just too busy with their lives. There is too much opportunity cost in even spending a few hours a week recording their opinions.  Participative media doesn’t even make it onto their radar.

So I am left wondering if a lot of participative media is in fact exclusive rather than inclusive. Elitist rather than democratic?  Is it in fact the preserve of the very sections of society that have the most control over the decision making process?

It matters to me because I have spent the last year developing a participative media tool. I believe in it and want to see it used. But the question is, how to get it into the hands of the busy mum or dad, who although they care about local road safety and want to be part of some form of local action group, barely find time to go to their kids’ football practice?

The answer, I think, lies in our good old local papers, the ones everyone mocks: providers of participative media and grass roots democratic campaigning platforms for the last few centuries. But here’s the rub: people still read the print versions, but in most cases hardly anyone visits them online.

And here’s what I suggest needs to be done. The creativity and enthusiasm of people working in participative media and e-democracy: journalists, academics, developers and entrepreneurs, should be coordinated by a central body, and put to work along with the regional news groups, to create a revolution in local online news.  

There are already islands of best practice among newspapers- Teesside, Liverpool and Birmingham. But the vast majority of local news sites are a long way behind. At the same time, highly innovative participative media start-ups are struggling for traffic and investment. I may be wrong, maybe it is a simplistic solution, but it seems to me if we can add these two elements together- the grass roots readership of printed news and the innovative digital news cottage industry, then we might get wider involvement.

Have I missed something, is there such a body?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, thanks for a very nice summary. I&#8217;m going to cite this in a report I&#8217;m currently doing on the use of social media in building intercultural dialogue. The relevance being that a) you can build a participative platform and no one might come and b) if they do come, they will almost certainly not discuss the issues you want in the way you want (and the reality might the far uglier).</p>
<p>Cased- good point about users needing complete freedom to set their own topics. It sounds as if Robin&#8217;s experience points in exactly the same direction and our experience with yoosk has also confirmed this.</p>
<p>Here’s another elephant: blogging is hard, time consuming, often brings no personal reward and in the experience of many turns out to be a futile venture that they give up within a few months. The same applies to writing comments on other people’s blogs or composing articles for submission to citizen journalism platforms. </p>
<p>As a genre, I suspect it’s likely that blogging will soon be seen as something that is done by people who work in media and on the fringes of media, along with academics, entrepreneurs and others who want to showcase their expertise and intellects.</p>
<p>And as long as people working in participative media and e-democracy expect high levels of participation from the public that involves blogging or carefully composed ‘posts’, either by text or video, then I think we’ll be disappointed.</p>
<p>To write this comment, I sat down in front of a word document and spent about half an hour drafting, redrafting and putting the finishing touches to what I hope is a reasonably intelligent contribution that will add something to the debate. I do this because I know I’ll be judged by what I write and I care what people, even strangers, think of me. I assume most people are the same.</p>
<p>How many people have the time and motivation to do that? I have the time because I am self-employed and I have the motivation because I want to network with a group of people who I think will add value to my intellectual and business life.</p>
<p>But most people are just too busy with their lives. There is too much opportunity cost in even spending a few hours a week recording their opinions.  Participative media doesn’t even make it onto their radar.</p>
<p>So I am left wondering if a lot of participative media is in fact exclusive rather than inclusive. Elitist rather than democratic?  Is it in fact the preserve of the very sections of society that have the most control over the decision making process?</p>
<p>It matters to me because I have spent the last year developing a participative media tool. I believe in it and want to see it used. But the question is, how to get it into the hands of the busy mum or dad, who although they care about local road safety and want to be part of some form of local action group, barely find time to go to their kids’ football practice?</p>
<p>The answer, I think, lies in our good old local papers, the ones everyone mocks: providers of participative media and grass roots democratic campaigning platforms for the last few centuries. But here’s the rub: people still read the print versions, but in most cases hardly anyone visits them online.</p>
<p>And here’s what I suggest needs to be done. The creativity and enthusiasm of people working in participative media and e-democracy: journalists, academics, developers and entrepreneurs, should be coordinated by a central body, and put to work along with the regional news groups, to create a revolution in local online news.  </p>
<p>There are already islands of best practice among newspapers- Teesside, Liverpool and Birmingham. But the vast majority of local news sites are a long way behind. At the same time, highly innovative participative media start-ups are struggling for traffic and investment. I may be wrong, maybe it is a simplistic solution, but it seems to me if we can add these two elements together- the grass roots readership of printed news and the innovative digital news cottage industry, then we might get wider involvement.</p>
<p>Have I missed something, is there such a body?</p>
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		<title>By: Could the BBC co-design its new community services? &#171; Socialreporter</title>
		<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Could the BBC co-design its new community services? &#171; Socialreporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/?p=27#comment-48</guid>
		<description>[...] may not hold up. Recently Charlie Beckett, champion of networked journalism, raised the issue of what happens if no-one comes &#8230; that is, the citizen journalists don&#8217;t materialise in the form the professionals [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] may not hold up. Recently Charlie Beckett, champion of networked journalism, raised the issue of what happens if no-one comes &#8230; that is, the citizen journalists don&#8217;t materialise in the form the professionals [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Costs of the BBC Action Network &#171; Socialreporter</title>
		<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Costs of the BBC Action Network &#171; Socialreporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/?p=27#comment-37</guid>
		<description>[...]        Citizen journalism: what if no-one&#160;comes? E-Democracy Centre &#8220;surprised [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]        Citizen journalism: what if no-one&nbsp;comes? E-Democracy Centre &#8220;surprised [...]</p>
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		<title>By: socialreporter</title>
		<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>socialreporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/?p=27#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Thanks Alice - I think there are a lot of lessons offline engagement practitioners could offer to networked journalists and the like. As you suggest the key issues where top-down initiatives are involved, are why bother, and if I do, will anyone listen?
On the other hand social media does potentially give people a greater opportunity to set their own agendas.
How about an informal get-together with a few people that might lead to a seminar, unconference, Open Space, Barcamp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Alice &#8211; I think there are a lot of lessons offline engagement practitioners could offer to networked journalists and the like. As you suggest the key issues where top-down initiatives are involved, are why bother, and if I do, will anyone listen?<br />
On the other hand social media does potentially give people a greater opportunity to set their own agendas.<br />
How about an informal get-together with a few people that might lead to a seminar, unconference, Open Space, Barcamp.</p>
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		<title>By: cased</title>
		<link>http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/citizen-journalism-what-if-no-one-comes/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>cased</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialreporter.wordpress.com/?p=27#comment-30</guid>
		<description>&quot;What if no-one comes?&quot; The elephant in the room!  The same is true for all efforts to induce greater public participation, unless there is a compelling reason to give up your own time and energy to participate, why on earth would you? 

The legacy of this &#039;head in the sand&#039; attitude being a vast number of under-used online forums set up in a top-down manner. If citizens can&#039;t fully set the agenda then the conversations will be mismatched with their expectations. Those who actaully have the time and energy to engage in the first place will be put off at the first hurdle by logging on to a place which features issues framed in a way that makes them feel irrelevant, or which have a poor user interface. Click on, click off...!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What if no-one comes?&#8221; The elephant in the room!  The same is true for all efforts to induce greater public participation, unless there is a compelling reason to give up your own time and energy to participate, why on earth would you? </p>
<p>The legacy of this &#8216;head in the sand&#8217; attitude being a vast number of under-used online forums set up in a top-down manner. If citizens can&#8217;t fully set the agenda then the conversations will be mismatched with their expectations. Those who actaully have the time and energy to engage in the first place will be put off at the first hurdle by logging on to a place which features issues framed in a way that makes them feel irrelevant, or which have a poor user interface. Click on, click off&#8230;!</p>
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